Shawn Lehocky: I’ve seen what it means to have to rely on another law firm for your family member and we lost control. It’s one thing, you know, when Jerry’s representing a comp case for my dad, it’s feel really strong. You know, Jerry’s amazing. But when you’re sending a family member out to another firm, it really puts it in perspective. Who are we working with? You know, are they truly treating our clients as if they’re family members? Because a lot of times they are. They are.
Transcript
Katie Frey: Welcome to Law Meets Life presented by Pond Lehocky, where conversations go beyond the courtroom and into the people, experiences, and moments that define who we are. I’m your host, Katie Frey, and today’s guest is the CEO of Pond Lehocky and the founder of Case Xchange, Shawn Lehocky. Thank you so much for being here today.
Shawn Lehocky: Thanks for having me. Absolutely.
Katie Frey: I have been looking forward to having you back on the show.
Shawn Lehocky: Me, too.
Katie Frey: So Shawn, I actually learned something about you during one of my interviews with Tom that I did not know before. You started here as an intern. And I want you to take me all the way back. How did you end up as an intern here in the first place?
Shawn Lehocky: Oh man, I think you know, life throws some crazy curveballs at you that I’ll ultimately lead down a road that, you know, sometimes you’re not expecting. So I graduated college early. I had a semester off and at the start of that year going into my senior year of college trying to figure out what I was going to do. my dad was a hardworking blue-collar pipe fitter my whole life. You know worked so hard, provided for us, you know, we had a great upbringing. but I saw, you know, the toll it was taking on him mentally, physically. I just, you know, I knew that wasn’t for me. And then my uncle would come home every year and be happy. I mean, you’ve been around Jerry, right?
Shawn Lehocky: He’s a amazing a personality, we joke he’s never had a bad day. So he comes home happy every, you know, couple times a year in Pittsburgh. Hang out with them. I was like I don’t know what that guy’s doing out in Philadelphia but I’m going to go figure it out. you know driving nice cars, always dress nice and I was like you know that’s more of the lifestyle I want to pursue. I had no idea what it meant to be a lawyer. I didn’t know what a law firm was. You know, growing up in Pittsburgh, there was an attorney named Edgar Snyder who has built a brand that’s really entrenched in that city. You know, growing up there, I thought he was the only lawyer in the world until I knew my uncle was one. So I graduated college. I moved here in December of 2011. About two months in of being an intern, I realized being a lawyer is not for me. I’m not a reader or writer. I’m more of a numbers type of guy in systems. Luckily the firm was, you know, new in an infancy stage and didn’t really have a lot of operational people at the time and Sam and Tom came to me I believe around March and they’re like we think you should stay, not go to law school, and move into an operations role. And then you know from there kind of elevated out different career path.
Katie Frey: Did you ever think you wanted to be in operations someplace else?
Shawn Lehocky: My dream was to build robotic prosthetic limbs. No. So yeah, my whole life I was into technology robotics and you know the program to really get in there is Johns Hopkins. You have to be a biomedical engineer and that was you know one of the paths I explored but you know that’s a dual major in college and you know I wanted to continue playing sports and things like that. So just a different pathway but no I never thought I’d work at a law firm. So this is, you know, 15 years later, it’s it’s something. But I think there’s a lot of, you know, a law firm is just a title. I think when you look at our core business, there’s a lot of different functions that are really similar to a lot of other industries. And it’s really problem solving and using that kind of engineering mindset to solve problems, gain efficiencies, and do things like that. I think it’s a fun challenge in an industry that really needs it. So, you know, I am so blessed to be where I’m at.
Shawn Lehocky: I’m so happy to have the team that I get to work with and solve the problems for the people that look like my father. You know, my I have immediate family members that have been clients in every department we have. So, I think that gives me a unique perspective on not only what we’re doing and why we’re doing it, but who we’re doing it for. So it really means something at the end of the day.
Katie Frey: Absolutely. So, your intern experience made you realize you didn’t want to become a lawyer. Was there an actual moment where you realized I can build a machine around these people that will help them do their job more efficiently?
Shawn Lehocky: Yeah, I had an aha moment and you know I think one of the benefits I had was number one I moved straight here into the disability department under Tom and that was kind of a new and emerging practice area whereas work comp you know Sam and Jerry have been doing it forever. They’ve had practices, procedures, standard operating procedures across the board, where in SSD we were able to really mold that over time. But I remember, you know, Sam sent an email to a select group of us and it’s like we need to figure out how to write reports out of Needles at the time, which is our case management system. And it was in a really complex coding language called Sybase. And you basically had to go down to Needles headquarters in Baltimore and take this course on how to write reports. And you know, I moved here, didn’t have a lot of friends or family in the area. so I was always at work because like, you know, it’s my way to be social. so I was like, “Yeah, I’ll go do it. I mean, I have nothing else going on.” So I went down there for a long weekend. I learned how to write reports out of needles. And then I became the report guy for Sam. And you know, every department needed a report. I would write it. I mean, I probably broke the Needles record for most reports written by a single person. I mean, in the thousands. And from that evolution, it was not only just writing reports, but then Sam would respond and ask a million questions on the report and then you know trying to figure out what he was going to ask and be proactive led me to learning about a lot of different aspects of the business and these different departments. So I think that you know raising my hand and going to that Needles meeting clearly changed the trajectory of the rest of my career. And I think not only was it systems and case management systems and you know technology, but it was what are the questions that a business owner is going to ask and how can I learn business?
Shawn Lehocky: And Sam jokes all the time, you know, we went and got MBAs years later after we started at the firm and we joke that my MBA was with Sam in his office, you know, so I almost have a dual MBA degree. One actual, but the main one was from being around a personality like Sam who’s running a big business, an emerging business, multi-department business and trying to predict what he was going to ask and then give him the responses ahead of time and I think just being a sponge under him allowed me to kind of grow from there. The common thread we’ve seen raising your hand and then the good that can come from it yeah I mean Tom’s comment about your best abilities being available and I truly believe that and don’t be afraid to just say, “Yeah, I’ll go do it.” And then figure it out. and I think that is a that is something that can never leave you at whatever role you’re in at any level. It’s you have to constantly be improving. And you know, that’s kind of our belief system at the firm, but it we truly truly live by that.
Katie Frey: So, you went from intern, what was your next role after intern?
Shawn Lehocky: I think I was an operations manager.
Katie Frey: Okay.
Shawn Lehocky: And then director of operations and then chief strategy officer and then CEO.
Katie Frey: Oh my gosh. So out of all of those transitions, which was the biggest challenge?
Shawn Lehocky: I think it wasn’t necessarily a change in title. It was the firm has gone through many iterations. And I think the biggest challenge was trying to scale razor thin margin departments. You know, I think when you look at the legal industry, you have really good lawyers that don’t have to be great operators because they have one or two great PI cases that can make their year and it kind of masks a lot of problems. I think fortunately for Pond Lehocky, we weren’t in the personal injury space, so we never had the big bang or the huge case or the big fee that was going to mask operational challenges. So as we scaled, we had to do so so efficiently and so rapidly that the learnings that… I mean, we’ve made a ton of mistakes. I think we’ve learned more by making mistakes than trying to you know be proactive and I think that’s just the nature of how fast we grew. But doing things at scale especially for a Social Security Disability department where the average fee is you know very small percent compared to the average personal injury fee. We had to learn to operate at a high level very quickly and the only way to do so is have a really good team, have really good infrastructure and rely on technology and data analytics. One of the things that I have noticed since beginning to work with you is just how quickly your mind moves.
Katie Frey: We can be discussing one problem and within minutes you’ve identified three other opportunities that somehow connect to it. Have you always thought that way?
Shawn Lehocky: You know, I don’t realize I’m doing it. I think again we have such a good team that we can just lean into our strengths and I think one of my strengths and what I’m doing is trying to connect those dots between different departments and different people. Yeah, I think I’ve always looked at myself from kind of that physics engineering lens. And I have one of my most important people in my life was my high school physics teacher. And he really there was something about our relationship, Dr. Wargo in Freedom Area High School, that changed all my perspective on everything. And it was, here’s the problem. Here’s how the book tells you how to fix it. Go figure out how you’re going to do it. And I think just giving me that freedom even in the structured classroom to just think differently, you know, I just never lost that. He, you know, of all the people that have impacted my life, he is definitely on the short list at the top. And I still keep in touch with him today. He’s doing amazing things. At our high school. I actually, it’s funny. I went to the board. I wanted him in my life so bad. I went to our school board in high school and pitched for them to offer higher level physics classes so I could keep being in his classroom.
Katie Frey: Are you serious?
Shawn Lehocky: Yeah. The physics 2 department, AP physics, all that came out of me just wanting to spend more time around this guy, which was a very I don’t know if I’ve ever told that story, but he’s also the reason I got into technology really, you know. So, in my high school, you had to do a senior project and of course I couldn’t pick an easy one. But similar to college, I kind of graduated high school early but didn’t. So I never took a study hall in my, you know, early high school career.
Shawn Lehocky: So when I got to my senior year, instead of graduating early, I wanted to play my senior year of sports. So I only had to take a math class. So I would be at school from like 7:15 to 8:00 and then I’d be done for the day. And instead of going home or doing anything, I went to the physics lab and worked on my senior project for probably hundreds of hours. And what it what I did was I took an alarm clock apart and rebuilt a scoreboard for our baseball field from it with his help. So that was like the first foray into how a system can work and you know technology and electronics and things like that. Yeah we actually used the scoreboard on the baseball field for a few games. So it was very interesting but that you know again just the importance he’s had on my life is you know it’s hard to measure. Shout out to all of the teachers out there especially the ones that have this kind of impact and I think we can all remember that one teacher that changed our lives in a way.
Katie Frey: That is just so incredible to hear the profound impact of the trajectory of your life that stems from that relationship.
Shawn Lehocky: Yeah, it’s amazing. It’s such a young age too. I had no clue what I was doing or that this way of thinking would be important long term. I give him like I said all the credit in the world.
Katie Frey:That is so cool. Now when an idea hits you, I want to know what happens next. Yeah. Are you someone who immediately starts building it? Do you write it down? Do you call somebody? Do you run the numbers? Like what happens inside of Shawn’s head? And what does that inside process really look like?
Shawn Lehocky: Yeah, I think for some strange reason I’m a writer. You know, I hate writing like text, but I am a doodler. I’m a drawer. Like you’ve seen the Case Xchange diagrams. For me to get it out of my brain and remember it, I have to write it down and diagram it out. But yeah I think once the concept happens I am trying to then think about the next three steps and I think that allows a lot of things to happen but again I’m doing it to try to understand the why and really then I will lean towards starting to build something versus sitting there thinking about it week for weeks because what I what I’ve learned is when you try to build like say a new new technology technology or something, the first version that you think is going to be perfect is not. So, I’d rather roll something out quickly and then iterate on it and have multiple versions and see the failures happening and learn from it versus trying to sit there and, you know, do a classroom setting in a perfect scenario with all the right data because that’s just not reality.
Katie Frey: You’re also an incredible artist and I want to insert some pictures here of some of your incredible artwork, but I think it’s amazing that you have this science data-driven mind, but you also are able to see things through the lens of art and how to make the world beautiful. Where do you think that artistic side stems from?
Shawn Lehocky: I think it’s from again the specific one you’re talking about. I did a huge dice project that I had no clue what I was actually getting into. You know, I found I was on TikTok or something one day and I saw somebody do this thing with dice. I’m like, man, that would look really cool in my basement. It does look really cool. I went online to try to buy it. I was like, that’s crazy. Like the cost of dice or nothing. Like selling for tens of thousands of dollars. What is this? And then every Christmas I try to do a project with my daughter. She is going to turn eight this year. And so we build puzzles. We, you know, do all types of arts and crafts. We’re doing some 3D printing projects now. Fine. But I was like, you know, let me get some dice and I’ll figure it out. I didn’t realize that was going to be like a 200 hour, six month process to have, you know, a piece of art that had 10,000 dice in it. But yeah, I mean, every time I’m watching the Steelers game in my basement now, I have a nice picture of Troy Polamalu next to me and, you know, hair and all hair and all. so it was fun, but I think, you know, it’s it’s trying to find something that, you know, takes your mind away from some of the stresses of life or work. and really just allows you to get in a kind of a flow state and, hey, this is all I’m thinking about right now. I wish I was a good artist. I can’t draw. I can’t paint or anything like that. So, you know, building puzzles or doing the dice stuff where you don’t give yourself enough credit, though, because it takes a level of understanding art to be able to pull off what you pulled off.
Katie Frey: And I love that it’s also a bonding experience for you and your daughter. Now, because you constantly have ideas floating around in your head, how do you distinguish a genuinely great idea from something that’s merely interesting to you?
Shawn Lehocky: Yeah, I think it’s you got to try them all. You know, I think there are I’ve had way more bad ideas than I’ve had good ideas. And again, I don’t think it’s just me. You know, I, we’re talking about myself here, but our team is formatted in a way that we stress test each other’s ideas, but we try to implement all of them and see which ones stick. And I think it’s that the lack of fear of failure of saying, why not try it?
Katie Frey: What’s the worst that’s going to happen?
Shawn Lehocky: And as long as you have a system in place that records the results correctly and you know make sure you’re not wasting time on something that’s not going to be fruitful and you’re iterating quickly, yeah, try it. Why not?
Katie Frey: Now Shawn, you were a quarterback at Westminster College.
Shawn Lehocky: I was.
Katie Frey: Does any part of running Pond Lehocky feel like you’re still standing behind the line of scrimmage reading a defense?
Shawn Lehocky: Yeah, I think, you know, clearly there’s nuances of football that are not translatable, but you know, when you’re a quarterback, you have to rely on everyone else to do their job. You know, you can throw a perfect pass, but the receiver might not catch it. The line needs to hold up. There’s so many aspects of that team sport that are so important. And I think the biggest one is everyone at times is looking to you to gauge your emotions. And I think, you know, we have three amazing founding partners here. And I think they’re all so different that it they gel together perfectly, but one of the things I admire about Sam the most is he understands his duty, what he calls to the ship. you know, he is the driving force. He needs to remain calm when everyone else can be frantic. So the room is reading him at times to see, well, how should I react based on his affect?
Shawn Lehocky: And I think being a quarterback in football, there was a lot of that similar traits of, yeah, the game could not be going great right now. We could have just had a bad play, but I need to be the calming force that everyone’s going to look at and say, all right, if he’s okay, we’re okay. you know, so you know, I learned a lot of that from sports and then it’s been instilled in me in a different setting with Sam and how he operates at the firm.
Katie Frey: Now, we talked a little bit about your family earlier, but I know you grew up outside of Pittsburgh in a working-class family. Your dad was a third-generation pipe fitter and your mom worked in a hospital.
Shawn Lehocky: Yeah.
Katie Frey: What did growing up in that environment teach you about work?
Shawn Lehocky: Yeah. I mean my parents I’m so lucky, you know. I think the household I grew up in, I was the oldest sibling. I have a younger brother and a younger sister. we are all different. But I think we spent so much time together. My mom would take us camping. My dad would take us fishing. You know, I think what was instilled in me is how hard you have to work every day. My dad would work hard all day and then he coached every sports team. He was so present that, you know, at the age I’m at now, looking back with kids, man, like the commitment to, you know, being outside in a welding mask in long sleeve clothes and 90° heat welding and coming home and practicing and coaching and being there. And then my mom was like the calming presence of everything. You know, she was very intelligent, you know, worked a lot of my childhood. but she was, you know, kind of like that happy golucky, always there, making sure everything was okay. And I think that dynamic, you know, really worked. And that’s something, you know, I’ve tried to achieve in my personal life now is like being present, don’t bringing bad energy in the house, being there for your kids. Like all of that’s grounded in my childhood.
Katie Frey: Amazing. Pond Lehocky represents working people every single day. Does having a father who spent his career in the trades make this mission feel more personal to you?
Shawn Lehocky: Absolutely. I think Jerry has represented my father, his brother three times. And you know, I grew up where my dad couldn’t take there was no such thing as a vacation day. If he didn’t work, he didn’t get paid, you know. And I think that comes with the territory of his job. I remember I think I was probably under 10 years old. A steel plate fell from the ceiling and went through his foot. Literally this the point went through his foot. He was at work the next day. I mean, he was limping. It went right behind the steel toe plate in his boot. But showed up and went to work the next day. I’ve seen what it means to work in pain. I’ve seen the toll it takes on your body. my dad has eye problems from welding and chemicals splashing up coming out of a pipe. So yeah, when when I go to union meetings, I’m talking to my dad, you know, and I think he’s also a disability client of ours. I’ve seen that journey. I’ve seen what it means to work hard your whole life and not know at the end that you’re going to be okay. And I think we help people that calming presence. I’ve seen it firsthand. You know, my sister was in a car accident. She was a referral case of ours. I’ve seen what it means to have to rely on another law firm for your family member and we lost control. It’s one thing, you know, when Jerry’s representing a comp case for my dad, it’s feel really strong. You know, Jerry’s amazing, but when you’re sending a family member out to another firm, it really puts it in perspective. Who are we working with?
Katie Frey: You know, what are they truly treating our clients as if they’re family members?
Shawn Lehocky: Because a lot of times they are. They are. So I think that perspective, especially having my dad as a union member, working-class guy, I know exactly what people are going through. And then the other thing that happened in my life that, you know, I haven’t really talked about, but I had a crazy medical issue in 2015. I grew up, you know, I knew about this spot on my liver since I was probably 12. I remember I broke my ribs playing football. Got an X-ray and they found this little spot on my liver and they were like, “Oh, you know, it’s it’s not cancerous. It’s like benign tumor. We’re just going to watch it and see see how it progresses. Your rib cages are kind of protecting it.” So it grew to the size of a baseball by my senior year of high school. And at the same time, one of my best friends in high school was in our, you know, close guy group. He actually died of liver cancer. And we were actually going to the same doctor at the same time, which in high school. In high school. Yeah. He passed away. We were 18 years old. There’s a picture in my office. He was my senior year of high school. He was maybe 108 pounds with a 30 lb tumor. And there’s a picture upstairs of him hitting a ball in a baseball game with rib protectors on covering the tumor like football rib pads and he got a hit in a high school baseball game. So I think that you know the perspective of you know seeing firsthand what could happen medically. So then you know I go through that happens in high school. I go off through college. My college was relatively close to Pittsburgh. So I stayed with those doctors and it had stopped growing and my doctor’s like look you’re moving to Philly. This thing hasn’t grown. You’re done growing. Like I think you’re going to be okay. You know just be cautious of it. So that was, you know, in sometime in 2011. So fast forward to 2014, you know, all the guys here play tennis, girls and guys. And I was like, yeah, I could play ping pong and I want to run around. I’m not going to ever sit on a treadmill and run. So let me figure this tennis thing out. So fortunately and unfortunately, I played a game of tennis and it was our old COO Jackie, myself versus Bryan Riley, and Ruxandra. Well, Ruxandra was a D1 tennis player. Amazing tennis player. Can hit a ball. So I’m at the net trying to do my ping pong thing and she hits a hits a tennis ball really hard and hits me in the stomach. Now I’ve been hit by 350 lb guys. I’ve been tackled. Like I’ve been injured all types of way. I went down in a way that I have never felt before. I instantly turned white. I was sweating. I went home and I my wife now was my girlfriend at the time. We had been dating maybe a year. I was like, “Something’s wrong. I need to go to the hospital.” So, I go to the hospital and hear that baseball-sized benign tumor was now a little bigger than a cantaloupe pressing into other organs and was about to rupture. So they said this was maybe happened in September, January 21st of 2015. I had my right liver, the right lobe of my liver removed in the hospital. Unfortunately that surgery didn’t go well. So, I spent the next two years in the hospital and probably had, you know, upwards of 50 procedures done. yAt one point I don’t think I left the bed for eight months. They fed me through tubes in my arms. I was on crazy medication. There was times where like my parents had to say goodbye that night because they didn’t know if I would wake up the next morning. So, it was very, you know, a very, very serious ordeal. and I learned a lot from it.
Shawn Lehocky: Number one, I never thought anything bad was going to happen. Even while I was going through it, you know, the mindset of we’re going to get through this, the positive, I really believe that had some impact on making it out the other side. But more importantly, you could have a good job. You could have a family. You could have all the material things in the world and it can all be taken away. You know, I was laying in that bed for eight months unable to do anything. I learned how to roll sushi cause I watched about 800 hours of sushi videos just because what else is there to do when you’re in a hospital bed?
You can only watch like Storage Wars so many times. But I think going through that, number one, you know, my wife would work 8 to 4 and then be at the hospital from 4:00 to midnight every day. And yeah, I mean, a lot of people say they’ll do that. She did it for two years. So, you know, it’s amazing that support system was so important to the outcome.
And yeah, I think the life lessons you learn from something like that is really relatable to what our clients go through. So, you know, I’m fortunate.
You know, the firm says they have your back when something happens. I’m the living example of that’s true. So, sorry to get emotional there, but you know, I haven’t relived that story in a long time. But yeah, I think you know whether it’s my father, whether it’s my sister, some other family members that have gone through things, my personal experiences, I understand what it’s what’s at stake and what can be taken away from you and why we have to be there for people.
Shawn Lehocky: You know, I think what makes Pond Lehocky so so special is not necessarily the lawyers that we have. We have great lawyers. It’s not necessarily the operators that we have and we have some great ones. It’s not necessarily our brand and our marketing, which we have incredible assets. We have a belief system that we understand why we’re doing what we’re doing, who we’re doing it for, and how we’re going to do it. But I believe that belief system and believing we are meant to do this. It’s our responsibility to do this. It’s our duty to do this, and we will accomplish that. That belief system is what makes Pond Lehocky, Pond Lehocky. And I think the three guys at the top have believed in this place before it existed, and have never let us waver in that belief. And that belief in why we’re doing it. You know, we have all had family members that have gone through things. We, all of us, we know somebody, but we can be there to help. And like what a powerful way to have an impact on somebody. yeah, it’s a special thing. special thing. Thank you for Yeah.
Katie Frey: You have such a unique and powerful perspective on life. So, I’m curious about what part of Pittsburgh is still very much with you today.
Shawn Lehocky: Well, definitely the sports environment. I think, you know, Pittsburgh, but they don’t have the shore. They don’t have New York City an hour away. They don’t have Baltimore an hour away. I think you have to find things, you know, make up backyard games, you know, be with your friends group. We have Primantis and I get it every every time I go back home. There’s three things I get. I get a Primantis sandwich. I get the hot dog shop, which is the best $1 hot dog in the world. But chili, cheese, and onion hot dogs. The best. And then Police Station pizza. Those are my three. Every time I’m home, my family gets sick of it. They always know it’s coming. My wife’s like this again, but I have to. So that’s with me. I think the hard work mentality is with me. I think Pittsburgh is a gritty town. It has its own personality. I mean, it’s shocking that Pittsburgh and Philly are in the same state. I think they are very different, but I think a lot of the core core things are very similar. There’s just so much more to do here on the weekends. Pittsburgh is, you know, over the last 15 years, I think they’ve really done a lot of things to improve the city. Restaurants are great. You know, I think it’s it’s changing for the better. It’s a it’s a cool place now. But I, you know, I will always be from Pittsburgh. I bleed black and gold to my wife’s dismay, but you know, our partnerships now are, you know, it’s cool for me that, you know, I can have my last name on something that has a Steelers logo. I mean, that’s as a kid growing up in Pittsburgh was like, “What?
Katie Frey: That’s possible?” So, it’s amazing.
Shawn Lehocky: You know, I never take take that for granted. You know, we get to experience a lot of cool things here at the firm and, you know, try to get yourself not to get used to them and really enjoy those moments because I remember as a kid, you know, I went to my I think first Steelers game I went to maybe two in my life before I moved here. One when I was 13 and one when I was in high school. So to now to be able to have season tickets and partnerships, it’s just what a dream. Yeah.
Katie Frey: Did you ever get to meet Troy Polamalu?
Shawn Lehocky: I haven’t. My goal was to get him to see the picture. So, I need I need your guys help with making like a little Tik Tok video.
Katie Frey: Troy. Yeah. Well, this is our our shout out to you. Come on the podcast, take some pictures with Shawn and come over and check out his really sick artwork of you. Yeah, that’d be amazing. That would be really cool. So, I have to ask, after living and working in Philadelphia for all of these years, where does your allegiance actually lie when Pittsburgh and Philly collide?
Shawn Lehocky: Always Pittsburgh. You know, I respect people that, you know, switch their teams, but there’s something about growing up somewhere and having that sports team. Like, I can’t understand how people switch their allegiances. you know, I think the Sixers give me a good something to relate to Philly sports fans with. and you know, of course, growing up in Pittsburgh, the Pirates have had a lot of tough seasons. And my wife is one of the biggest Phillies fans. Like we’ll watch every game, even by yourself. It’s crazy. So, you know, I enjoy Philly sports.
Katie Frey: I clearly love going to sporting events, and as a sports fan, I can enjoy it. But for some reason, the Steelers and the Eagles have played a lot recently, and they’re playing again this year in Philly. And I don’t know if I’ll wear my Steelers jersey cuz I think I’ve gotten smarter. but I will definitely at least be in a black hoodie or something. Neutral. So, when you became CEO, what did you think the job was going to be, and what did you discover the job actually was?
Shawn Lehocky: Yeah, I don’t think it was. Again, I think we’ve done a really good job of knowing what your skill sets are and being a part of our team. you know, clearly titles changed and things like that. I don’t think, well, my responsibilities might have gotten greater. I think the things I needed to focus on and doing my part on the team clearly changed, but not as much as you would think. I think the time the timing of that change you know was something. It was right in the middle of the pandemic. So you know the firm was was changing the world was changing. It was evolving. We had people working everywhere remotely. You know how do you continue culture?
Katie Frey: Yeah. How do you collaborate? How do you make sure your people are okay?
Shawn Lehocky: You know things like that. But you I don’t think my title change really changed much about what I showed up and did every day. I think it clearly gave me more autonomy and authority and things like that. but I at the end of the day am just Shawn on our team doing my role and I think we you know one of the things about our firm, you know, the titles don’t matter. It is what is your responsibility? What is your duty to the ship, and are you doing your part every single day?
Shawn Lehocky: And I think my goal moving forward is to maintain that long into the future. You know, don’t try to be something you’re not. Understand the mission, understand your responsibilities, be that calming force in the room. and again, just show up every day.
Katie Frey: How do you make a decision when the data tells you one thing, but your gut tells you another?
Shawn Lehocky: Yeah, I think it’s that’s the constant challenge, right? And I think that’s what makes some of the greatest business leaders in the world is that is it signal or is it noise? Do you know that concept? Have you heard of this? It is there’s data and then there’s the story that the data is telling or not telling. And I think what you have to be clear on is what is the framework for judging success? How does the data tell the story? And is it really telling a story or is it just diverting focus from what is actually important? And I think oftent times what you come back to is your gut feel in the beginning usually is generally pointing you in the right direction. so don’t ever dismiss that completely. But clearly you have to be mindful that you what your beliefs and philosophies or thoughts or decisions could be wrong. So use the data as a tool to judge or constrain your gut feels into a system that allows it to either be true or not. And I think that there needs to be some understanding that there’s such thing as bad data or you know correlation versus causation. It’s yeah this data is pointing in this direction but there’s so many variables underlying that might be masked by if I’m just looking at this topline report. you have to really dive in and understand what makes up that report. Were the fields correct? Was the data structured correctly? and I think we’ve we’re on a constant journey of that started a long time ago that it’ll never end.
But again, I think it’s don’t ever lose your gut feel because often times you have the context, you’ve been in the meeting, you’ve seen the numbers a million times. Generally, you kind of know the direction that things are going to point in. But again, we can all be wrong and we have to use data as that tool that you know helps that balance.
Katie Frey: You went back and earned your MBA while already operating at a very high level inside the firm. Why was continuing your education so important to you when you were already doing the job?
Shawn Lehocky: Yeah, I think it was in an effort to be continue to be an asset to the firm. The firm believed in us enough to continue our education and support that. I didn’t know this at the time, but within MBA programs, there’s like different specialties. It’s almost like college when you pick your degree. It’s like you just didn’t get a bachelor’s degree, you got a bachelor’s degree in something. My MBA was in data analytics. And I think again, one of those weird things where like, yeah, it just made sense for me to pick that at the time. I was into data and but AI wasn’t a thing or but being in classrooms with software engineers with technicians with really really smart professional quant level an analysts I understood the language that they were talking in and I think of any skill set I may have I think the one thing that I got from my MBA was being able to translate a technical problem into a business problem and vice versa. So here’s what the business people are saying and here’s how it needs to translate to the people that are going to build the solutions. I think being that bridge and understanding that language and especially software and analytics came from that program. So I might not use the skills every day that I’ve learned now because you know clearly my job’s different but I can speak the language to a degree that allows me to understand very complex technical issues within the software analytics side of things. It’s amazing. Never stop learning. Never.
Katie Frey: What’s something you’ve changed your mind about as a leader over the past five years?
Shawn Lehocky: Yeah, I think understanding that not everyone is the same. Understanding that what makes somebody good in one role doesn’t mean they’re going to be good in the next role. I think my belief in people hasn’t changed, but I think how you evaluate if somebody is in the right seat or the wrong seat. And then I think another thing that’s changed is, you know, what do you what system can you build around somebody that allows them to maximize their experience at work?
And, you know, I think this came out of necessity as we looked at, you know, especially through COVID. I mean, you had to analyze every aspect of the business. But we have clearly different levels of employees. You know, very senior paralegals, somebody that’s been here for two weeks. And what are your most senior trained people spending their day on?
And often times what you think it is not what it actually is. And yeah, they might be doing this task, but this task has five other steps that maybe they shouldn’t be doing, you know. So, one of the things that we did was kind of a stopwatch test that we would just sit with random people and time how long per day they were doing tasks and then say, “All right, well, only 50% of your day were really on meaningful tasks.” Number one, for that person, is that the best experience at a workplace you can have if if your half your day is spent doing things that kind of are mundane or shouldn’t be at your scale with your knowledge base?
Number two, from a business, you know, we have an asset, right? We have an asset that has spent years learning the nuances of the law or that case or spent years with that client. If I’m diverting their attention away from something that’s going to have either high-level customer service or being strategic in that file to ultimately get a result, then I’m not doing my job as the operator of the business, right?
Because I am not maximizing my return on a precious asset. Yeah. so I think it is, it goes back into the questioning everything, but when you’re a leader, you can’t just let things sit and be the way they are. You constantly have to focus on people and process. And they, they’re two different words, but they’re one and the same. Can’t have one without the other. People and process. Speaking of people and process, I want to talk to you as the founder of Case Xchange about something that I feel like is the perfect example of how your brain works.
Katie Frey: What problem did you see that made you think there has to be a better way to do this?
Shawn Lehocky: Again, a lot of my solutions have come out of Sam emails. And you know, the referral department, it when the referral department started, it was I came back from being sick. The SSD department was kind of running with a new management structure. And it was like, all right, Shawn’s coming back. Where should he focus his time?
I met with the partners and they’re like, “There’s a there’s an opportunity to do something different.” I asked them if I could focus on the referral department and try to spin that into something different and they they allowed me to do so. And it was literally just me and Adam was an intern. and you know, so we started that really in 2017, 2018. And at the time, you know, we were the first customer of Litify. We were actually building a competing software to Litify before Litify existed. We were building our own Salesforce case management system. And then we met the team through Sam and John Morgan’s relationships. We met the Litify team and we’re like, “All right, we just spent a ton of money building our own, but let’s, you know, kind of throw that away. Let’s join this Litify mission. We were the first customer, one of the earliest investors in it.” And, you know, their first product, you know, they had it there was an idea when we met them. They had no there was no software other than a referral management system called the LRN. And at the time it was cutting edge. It was new. It was innovative. It was a way to get things out of email and put processes around referrals. But and to Liitify’s credit, they’ve kept that alive, but it was always a free product on Litify. And so I think the challenge for the Litify team was well, this isn’t something we can monetize. so we can’t really spend the cost. It’s a cost center. So I can’t really spend a lot of software engineering hours when I’m trying to build a case management system and all these other tools around this free product. so I think there was, you know, some frustration there over, you know, needing more information for what our now biggest department by a number of clients and not being able to answer questions about that inventory or getting 30% of the referral checks show up when we didn’t know that the case was even signed up or won. And it was just not a way to operate. I mean, when we hold ourselves to a pretty high standard of operations, you can’t have your biggest department have no visibility into the actual cases. Number one, if we’re doing what’s best by the client, we need to know. We need to operate our referral inventory as if it was an in-house inventory because it is. There are clients and we have tens of thousands of cases signed with other firms around the country and this the tools weren’t there. and we have a very unique process and we know the challenges of running a referral department at scale. I think we’re, you know, probably in the top 10 or so referral firms in the country by volume. So, we’ve seen the problems at scale.
We know the solutions. And Case Xchange was never really meant to be a software company. It was meant to be an operating system for a referral department. that just so happened that you there’s other firms that have the same problems that we have. So, it spun off and became its own thing.
But, it was built to be our operating system. It was built to give us transparency and to an inventory that is with thousands of lawyers around the country with all different levels of cases, but with our clients in mind. And you know, the idea really came out of a case status conference that I was I’m a part of a a mastermind group with Andy, which I hope you’ll meet. He’s a great guy. and he’s basically solved that problem for the attorney to client communication and standardizing the language and things like that. And it was really he him that pushed me in the direction of like hey you can do this you know the problems go in that direction and then we made a decision as a a firm that you know this is something we’re going to do and you know the team that Case Xchange has now is amazing. I mean those guys are unbelievable. They’ve built something that you know I knew it was going to be successful. they’ve taken it to the next tier. We have some really exciting announcements coming out about it and some things that I think will change the trajectory of referrals in our industry forever. you know, getting rid of paper checks like it doesn’t take Albert Einstein to know that in 2026 we shouldn’t be receiving thousands of referral checks. You it just doesn’t make sense. When the data is there and the integrations are there. So, yeah, it goes back to what do we need to solve?
You know, the way I kind of look at these subsidiary companies or these products that we develop is we have a flagship law firm that has some of the biggest problems at scale and we have to solve those problems often now with tools and technology and systems. Well, if we have that problem, who else has it?
And so, we are not intentionally trying to be software people that come in and find your problems. We’re trying to solve our problems and then just so happen, hey, here’s a tool. So if your firm needs it too, like we’ve we’ve figured this out. That flip of not trying to be software people that come in and don’t understand the context or don’t understand the operations is the differentiator for whether it’s Case Xchange or some of the other companies that we have or tools or products. It is really we know the problem. We know the volume the scale of the problem and we either building it or partnering with it or some hybrid combination of finding a solution that works today. And guess what?
That solution might be gone tomorrow. You know, some of the things that we’ve just spent six months implementing might be irrelevant in six months because of AI and how fast tech is changing. If anybody comes in and tells you that they know what technology is going to look like in three years, they’re lying. They’re from the future. No one knows. Yeah. No one knows if it’s going to hit a plateau, if it’s going to accelerate, how it’s going to change, what are the adoptions, what are the client expectations. You know, I think clients or people in general have more access to information now than ever. What does that mean for business? What does that mean for customer service?
Shawn Lehocky: You know, when your clients calling you and they just use chat GPT to prep for your call with your attorney. They’re our clients are now probably asking more complex and different questions than ever. It’s not just, hey, what’s going on with my case?
It is, hey, this AI system said this should be happening next. Is that what’s going to happen? and so I think that becomes a a different place, you know, that is a different level of customer service that’s needed.
That’s different access to information quickly. You know, when somebody gets on the phone, can we distill that case information down into a summary that’s available for that person to know within a second exactly what to tell that person as the questions are getting more complex? you know, as clients are using portals or like I said, AI to really become more informed in a process that I think for years has not done a good job of educating their clients on, hey, here’s what’s coming down the here’s what to expect.
You know, here making them a part of that process. You know, I think law firms at times look at phone calls as a negative thing. If somebody’s calling you, that’s your insight to the journey of the case. you know, use flip flip the mindset of, “Oh man, we got another thousand extra phone calls this week. What did you learn from them?
What context can you do?” Because they’re telling you what information they want and don’t have.
It’s weird. Six months into every case, this same question comes up 80% of the phone calls. Well, maybe in month five, you should be getting ahead of that. Yeah. And you know, so there are ways to use your client’s data and information to inform the process. They’ll tell you what they want to know. I mean, they’re not afraid to do it, right?
Shawn Lehocky: And they’re doing it at a tough time in their life with with uncertainty, with pain, with financial pressures. Let’s get ahead of that so they don’t have to call. We want to we want to speak to them. But I my dream is to have our customer service be 100% outreach because that means that we did our job and we answered every question and we were on top of their files so much that they never had to call us. Wow. And I think you know whether that’s attainable or not, who knows?
Shawn Lehocky: But we’re going to strive for it and we’re going to get as close as we can. And there will be one day where there’s not a single Google review anywhere that says, “I didn’t know what was happening in my case or I was uninformed.” That’s not acceptable. We are, yes, we’re a law firm. We’re in a customer service business. And imagine going to a cancer doctor and not having visibility in your medical records or not having the understanding of when your next appointment is or when your next chemo treatment is. We have the same level of stake. You know, it’s that’s their health. We’re in charge of a lot of other healths of their life, financial, mental, you know, family dynamics. We shame on us for not doing it ahead of time. We should have done this, this industry should have done this a long time ago, but now it’s changing. And that has to be our guiding light. You can have again the best lawyers, the best operations. If you don’t, if you don’t have high-end white glove customer service, you’re failing.
You know, another thing that I think is tough in our industry is the PR battle. You know, I think the insurance companies, the other sides have done a really good job with PR at the detriment of plaintiff law firms. Everyone loves Flo. Emu, there’s a place for insurance. Clearly. Yeah. Clearly, it’s important, but what’s more important is people paying for something and getting access to it when they need it. And it would take you two hours of sitting and listening to phone calls in any of our departments to understand why we do things and why what is our role and responsibility in this industry. You know, if if everything was seamless, you wouldn’t need a lawyer. You know, you would pay your premiums and you get your benefits when you needed them. Clearly, that’s not the case. You know, so we have to constantly get better because we’re going we’re going against some big opponents.
We’ll be back with more law meets life after a quick message from our sponsor. Do my eyes play games?
Katie Frey: For somebody hearing about Case Xchange for the first time, what does it actually solve?
Shawn Lehocky: It solves a communication standardization layer between two law firms. and what that really means in simple forms is what you speak about as attributes or case or what you call things in a case may be different than what I refer to them as. So there needed to be a standardized language translating tool basically that can take information out of your system and standardize it in a way that is universal so that we are might be speaking two different languages but we’re talking about the same thing and we both know what we’re talking about because there’s times where people say this case just settled. What does that really mean? Did it really settle or is it on appeal? Could it be on appeal now? or where’s the money or are there other things that are happening?
And that’s a very, you know, basic topic. You know, clearly there’s not much nuance around a case selling, but there is. but for us to be able to have a a true transparent conversation, we need to be saying the same things or we need to be referring to the same objects. Even if we’re doing it our way, when we look at the report, it needs to show a universal way of looking at data. Case Xchange is also, you know, a connective tool to understand who’s in your platform. So, there’s other other tools out there that’ll take your case and match them with with law firms and there’s a a good use case for that.
Ours is more a relationship management tool. So, you have your network and again going into collaboration and making things better. I now have visibility around your operations in the context of my cases. So, how fast are you answering my referrals? What is your signup rate? How does that compare to other people with the same cases?
Shawn Lehocky: We’re now tiering cases. Every case that gets referred out is tiered based on an AI system that, you know, puts the case in a different parameters that says, “All right, this is a tier five case that’s related to a forklift injury in Michigan.” Well, how does Michigan’s forklift tier five cases compare to Ohio’s? and and we can goes to raising the bar.
It’s like why if it’s all the same laws and all the same insurance policies, there really shouldn’t be that much deviation between firms, between states. Clearly, there’s nuances between states and caps and limits and things like that. But the sharing of the information to say, well, you think your average fee is good or your average settlement of 100 grand is great, but the six other firms in your city are averaging 150. You know, what are you doing differently? or if all of a sudden you’re the outlier and the insurance company can and say, “Well, this firm will set up the case for 100 grand.” Like you’re now hurt, you’re lowering the bar for everyone. so that layer of transparency and the data that’s going to come out in the long run, I think will be the biggest asset to again raise the bar. But it’s the relationship management is key. What cases do you want that I may have and be able to send you? I don’t want to send you cases you don’t want. That’s a bad client experience. I need to have the nuance around your operations and your niche because there’s tons of niches in this industry. You’re not just a PI lawyer. You’re not just a comp lawyer at times. You’re the ladder lawyer. You’re the forklift lawyer. You’re the black ice slip and fall firm. That’s what you’re known for.
Katie Frey: What system manages that information today?
Shawn Lehocky: None. It’s all emails or communications that no one remembers in two years. And so I might be sending you cases outside of your jurisdiction around cases that you don’t normally handle. That might look like a good case in Pennsylvania, but in Virginia it’s not. And I need that context. So the relationship management tools are really the impactful piece. Now I think one of the most interesting pieces is what happens after a case is referred. Historically that could become a black box. Yes.
Katie Frey: Why was transparency such an important part of what you wanted to build?
Shawn Lehocky: Yeah, I think there’s two different contexts to that conversation. It is what is happening with the client and what is happening with the business. With the client, just because your case was signed really doesn’t mean anything. There are it’s now standard in a lot of practices to sign up a client right from the intake so they stop shopping around doesn’t mean you really took that case. Right?
There’s a qualification layer that happens after the sign up. Now, that is, I think, different now than it was maybe 10 years ago where a firm will sign a 100 cases and drop 30 within two months because they get the medical records or the police reports and the story might be different or the client thought they had X injury and it was really why or they thought they’d be out of work for 6 months, but they really felt better after a week. Like the context of a case does change and you need the supporting documents to ultimately decide if if the case has merit or is worth certain criteria for you to pursue.
So our old system stopped at at sign up. That was the status that it sat in for years. That’s not enough. We need to know all right the ultimate thing is that case is put into litigation. So, we’ve built the next layers in to say, well, I feel really good about a firm putting a case into litigation.
I feel good that they’re confident that is going to be a real viable case. And then we can start to track, all right, this firm, this state, it takes six months for a case to go into litigation. So if a case is pending in a investigating or assigned status for eight months, it now alerts our account managers. Hey, what’s go these cases are past the expected duration in this status. Tell me what’s going on. And so it’s giving us more data points to alert again that client journey. And then once it’s in litigation, we kind of know what the trial schedules are. We can do financial expectations. But when you’re trying to value an inventory, right? Because from every CFO, you know, banking relationships, a law firm’s assets are their cases, right?
And without visibility into true slippage rates, drop rates, in litigation rates, and ultimately win rates and average fees, I mean, you can’t do the type of analysis that you need to at any scale with any level of success if you don’t have this information. you know, we think that the average PI case might be 28 months. Well, that might be based on data over the last 10 years. How is that what is it trending towards right now, this month, this day?
And because if my financial model is based on data that’s irrelevant, it’s not a good spot to be in. So yeah, the historical data informs us in creating a model. The real-time feedback and the change the change in trends and how things are moving today needs to inform that model almost as importantly, you know, because if we think a big group of cases is going to come in July of 26, but it’s we should have never had that expectation. It’s really March of 27, that’s a big issue. and then what we think the average fee is well is that based on cost of living of 2017, you know, because that’s right cases take such a long time to come in that our inventory today and moving forward is being judged on average fees and signup rates from years ago. And are we certain that they they actually relate to each other anymore?
Yeah, clearly it’s better than nothing. It gives us some signal but the real time instant feedback that standardizes it makes it universal across every firm on a platform and then can inform financial decisions and the best benefit is reduce paper checks and have the payments actually there. So we have we’ve agreed that this is the percent that you’re going to pay us. Here’s the settlement. Here’s the actual payment in that system to verify wow all the numbers. and here’s what you expected the case to be and here’s what your results were. So, is a firm underestimating their values to us?
Because that again informs a a financial model. Hey, this case I think is a million- dollar case and then it settles for 13 million. Well, everyone’s happy, but like I’d love to know that case was not right a million dollar case. I’d love to know that my inventory had a $13 million case in it. And again, I think, you know, there’s some nuance. Lawyers like to hedge and, you know, underpromise and overdeliver at times, especially when they’re, you know, getting fed cases by a referral source. But it goes into the need for a system that understands the context in the referral world. What questions am I trying to answer?
And then here’s the inputs. Here’s the output I need to get to. You guys build a system that allows it to happen and give our team the freedom to say all right here’s point A, here’s point B. Get me there the most efficient way possible and with the most transparency and the easiest adoption and understanding. And I think we are well on our way on that journey. the momentum that’s picking up now. This month, Case Xchange will have over a 100,000 referral transactions on the platform.
Katie Frey: Wow. You know, congratulations. For, you know, the system starting in February. That’s a high rapid growth rate in a short period of time. The momentum is picking up and I’m really excited to see where it goes from here. And I’m so excited to check back in with you for another episode in season two, which we’re very excited to announce will be coming in October of this year.
So, Shawn, something I talked about with Kateri is that some of these referral systems are currently sticky notes, Excel spreadsheets, sometimes none of that. And I think a lot of firms are listening to this and saying, ‘Okay, I know I need a system, but I’m small.’ If you could talk directly to a firm that is still using sticky notes, Excel spreadsheets, or doesn’t even have a system, maybe, and tell them about Case Xchange, what would you say?
Shawn Lehocky: There’s no such thing as being too small for an operating system. It is you have a responsibility. you’ve declared a professional oath to do what’s in your best interest of your clients. Do you think operating on sticky notes and in emails and loss checks or incorrect data or not paying a referral fee because the system wasn’t automated? Do you think that is in the best interest of your client at the end of the day? Do you think that’s in the best interest of your firm at the end of the day?
And I know it’s a daunting task to think about technology. You have a responsibility to take care of your clients and your partners. And if you have a referral firm that’s feeding you, I would venture to say you want to make sure they continue to feed you. And if you’re not going to adopt systems and processes and standard operating procedures, you will be left behind. And there’s a lot of great lawyers that don’t get this right. And you can be the best lawyer out there. If you don’t have a case to work on, what are you doing? that our team will help you implement it.
It’s not as hard as you think. your life will become better. Your level of stress will go down because I guarantee you it’s not going to be a good call or a message when you send us a referral check that you might say, “Oh, I’m paying them a nice check. I didn’t know about it.” And where the context of that is, that’s great that I got a check that I wasn’t expecting. Number one, I needed it in my inventory value. Number two, how many checks did I not receive that I should have?
You know, and we can’t I think we were in a spot pre Case Xchange where again it was upwards of 20 or 30% of the checks that were coming in weren’t in a settled or a one status. They were signed up or they were not signed up or they were rejected for a lot of reasons and the check would just show up. That is a not good place to be in. That is a scary thing. This is this is money and clients benefits. And again, why is Case Xchange important to us?
Our referral department spun off one fundamental core theme of Pond Lehocky. It’s why our Social Security disability department exists. It’s why we’re moving into certain states. Our disability department started because our comp clients were usually blue-collar workers in their late 50s, early 60s that couldn’t do it anymore and needed social security disability because of the point of their life, not just a comp case. So 40% of our comp clients become disability clients. Well, now we grew a massive disability department. There’s a lot of people that reach out. I think at at one point for every hundred inquiries we got, we only signed five cases. That’s 95 people we had to say no to. If if you’re doing in what’s in the best interest of your client, it’s not a client’s not just a retained case. It’s people reaching out for help. We created a referral department to say I am not going to turn clients down. It’s not going to be I can’t help you. It might be I can’t help you for this. Let me see if I can help you for something else. And we’ve built we developed a script over time that says, “Yeah, I don’t think you’re eligible for social security disability or work comp, but let me let me know what else is going on. How did you get hurt? How did you get that disease? Did you take this medication?” I mean, there’s a million ways million different cases out there.
Shawn Lehocky: Case Xchange also has a tool that will help firms identify potentials in their intakes. You know, because we believe in this so much that, you know, number one, you’re helping more people, you’re creating a new revenue stream, and more importantly, your marketing dollars now get spread over more cases. So, from a business standpoint, your cost per case go down by just not telling people no.
And it doesn’t mean you should be taking cases that you shouldn’t, cuz that’s a whole different level of problems. No, still take the cases that meet your criteria for that department, but treat somebody as a person. Get to know them holistically. Understand what’s going on in their life. That extra five minutes on the phone might be a million-dollar case sitting there. And guess what? You’re doing what’s in the best interest of that person. They’re going to come back to you every time they have any issue or their family has any issue.
Katie Frey: So, why is the referral process and transparency so important?
Shawn Lehocky: Because they’re in-house clients of ours, too. it’s a disability client that just happens to have an auto case with you. That client’s calling me, too. If I don’t know what’s going on in your world, what service am I able to give them?
You know, I have to act on behalf of both firms. We have to act on on behalf of both firms because again, we’re treating a human being. it’s be, you know, often times you go to a hospital and there’s different groups of doctors that could work on a problem. They’re under one umbrella, but they’re very different departments. Imagine if they didn’t pass the charts back and forth and you wrote them a prescription and I wrote them the same one. That’s a big problem. You know, we that level of interplay and connectivity has to exist in the legal space for the exact same reasons. We have to do what’s in the best interest of that client.
Katie Frey: Now, for somebody who is listening and says, “I need this right now.” How can they reach out to you?
Shawn Lehocky: Yeah, they can go on casexchange. com. They can book a demo, can go on LinkedIn, Facebook, anywhere, email me. I’m happy to talk to anyone. I’m happy not just to have a Case Xchange conversation. We are an open book here. We truly believe on making this industry better. Please come into Philadelphia. Come in, collaborate with us, learn about what we’re doing. We’ll learn about what you’re doing. will help you create a referral department with structure, not just give you a tool to use that might not fit your structure. We will we believe in this mission and we will help you make a make it better because again we’ve made all the mistakes. Let’s raise the collective bar together. That’s right.
Katie Frey: So what does Case Xchange look like five years from now if everything you envision actually happens?
Shawn Lehocky: Yeah, I think I don’t want to spoil too many things, but there needs to be an ecosystem or a platform that connects every B2B relationship in our space. You could think of a bunch, right?
And they they usually have interplay between each other. Number one, the client has a place where they can see all the different cases with all their different law firms. And that happens through our case status integration. There’s the medical side of things. There’s court reporters, there’s vendors, there’s financial companies. I think Case Xchange, if if I have my dream, and I think we will accomplish this. I’m confident we will move in this direction, will be that binding platform for all B2B relationship management. And that’s what we’re going to strive to do. And clearly lawyer lawyer relationships are one aspect of it. but we have other very exciting platforms and avenues coming out to make Case Xchange that connective glue.
Katie Frey: Can’t wait to hear more about that. Yeah, we will definitely have to schedule another episode with you because I have so many more questions that I want to ask you, but for the sake of time and getting to the next place you need to be because you’re a very busy man. I will skip to the end of my questions and our time together. But before we leave each other today, as you know, this show is called Law Meets Life because we’re interested in the people behind the title. When you strip away CEO and founder, strategist and everything else, who is Shawn Lehocky?
Shawn Lehocky: Yeah, I think I’m a a curious person that’s trying to find purpose in a lot of things that I do. I think, you know, I am rooted in family. you know, my kids and my wife are everything to me. but I want to occupy my time with things that matter and that I can make a difference on and I can solve problems. I hate being in a spot where I’m sitting there doing something mindless and I, you know, something I’m not getting that stimulation. So, I think, you know, solving problems in a purposeful way that can lead into doing something good is kind of who I am.
I’m just normal kid from Pittsburgh that grew up like everyone else. I’m nothing special. My title doesn’t make me anything that I’m not. Just part of a team that’s doing some really cool things.
Katie Frey: I always like to end our episodes with a little game. Okay, so this is one we’ve never done before.
Because you are a quarterback. I’m going to give you a series of business and life situations and have you call the play immediately. Okay?
You can’t overthink anything. Okay. So, first immediate reaction.
Are you ready? You have a million dollars to start a company tomorrow. What industry are you entering?
Shawn Lehocky: Legal tech.
Katie Frey: Okay. You can eliminate one inefficient process from the legal industry forever. What is it?
Shawn Lehocky: That’s a great question. Paper checks. Paper checks. Still crazy.
Katie Frey: In the year 2026, you get one additional hour every single day. Where are you spending it?
Shawn Lehocky: Mhm. With my kids.
Katie Frey: You’re hiring someone and can choose only one: brilliant but difficult or inexperienced but relentlessly curious?
Shawn Lehocky: Inexperienced and relentlessly curious all day.
Katie Frey: One city gets bragging rights forever. Pittsburgh or Philadelphia?
Shawn Lehocky: Super Bowls, baby. We have the more rings.
Katie Frey: Brings up the rings. One quarterback to lead a final drive.
Shawn Lehocky: I mean, you have to go Tom Brady.
Katie Frey: You’re given the ability to see five years into the future. Do you look?
Shawn Lehocky: Absolutely.
Katie Frey: Really?
Katie Frey: Absolutely. You have one rule every employee at Pond Lehocky must follow. What’s the rule?
Shawn Lehocky: Treat everyone you speak to, whether they’re a staff member, an attorney, or a client, with a level of decency that you would your grandmother.
Katie Frey: What’s the next big thing?
Shawn Lehocky: Continuing to solve problems. You know, I don’t we don’t let the solutions dictate the roadmap. We let the problems dictate the road map. And when we come up with the solutions for our problems, that will naturally lead to what’s next.
Katie Frey: And now my last question that I ask on every episode, the title of our podcast is Law Meets Life. What does that title mean to you?
Shawn Lehocky: The ability for law to impact your life is vast. And I think usually people don’t understand what that means. clearly in the context of here it’s work. It’s a it’s a passion. It’s a career. it’s law is the reason my dad’s workplaces got safer. You know, law is the protector of a lot of things. It’s it what regulates industry. It’s what changes safety. It’s what protects people. And it’s what our founding fathers built into the Constitution to make sure that everyone had the right to their day in court. so that their life were protected. And I think there’s no difference between law and life. There is law is in every aspect of what we do. It’s what the paperwork we sign. It’s the way we drive. It’s the way we eat. It’s the foods we eat. It’s what we watch. All those disclaimers on all the commercials. Like the reason why a lot of our society functions is because of law. And again, that’s why the onus is on people like us and our company and our leaders to raise the bar because it is such an important aspect of life.
Katie Frey: Shawn, thank you so much for being here. Thank you. And thank you all so much for listening to season 1 of Law Meets Life. Until next time.
