Transcript

Tom Giordano: So, I’m always my hardest critic and I use I still do it to this day. I will never let my ego get out of check and I will always have a sense of impostor syndrome which kind of drives me. It’s kind of my fuel, right?

Katie Frey: Welcome to Law Meets Life presented by Pond Lehocky, where conversations go beyond the courtroom and into the people, experiences, and moments that define who we are. I’m your host, Katie Frey, and today’s guest is one of the founding partners of Pond Lehocky, Tom Giordano. Tom, thank you so much for being here.

Introduction

Tom Giordano: Katie, I’m honored, excited. I’ve been looking forward to this episode for a while now. I’ve been waiting for Pond Lehocky to start a podcast so I could do it. Let’s go.

Katie Frey: And I have to say for those of you listening right now, I feel like I have to explain why this episode is going to be a little bit different from the ones that we’ve filmed. Because out of all of the founding partners here, you’re probably I mean, you’re definitely the one that I work with the most. If you watch our social media over any point in the past six months, chances are you’ve seen Tom in a lot of our videos, whether he wanted to be or not. Most likely didn’t want to be. But to your credit, you’ve trusted me to push you outside of your comfort zone because you know that it helps us reach the people who need us the most. I’m curious because you really do have a marketing mastermind and I don’t think people credit you enough with how much of the ideas that come straight from your brain. I get an email that says, “Katie, let’s do this and we’re ready to fire.” Has creating content changed the way that you think about communicating with clients?

Connecting Through Social Media

Tom Giordano: sure it has. Well, first off, I think we should probably talk about how it got started, right? Because we didn’t have a social media presence, and quite frankly, I felt like it was missing, but I also thought like, who the hell would want to follow a law firm, right? but I didn’t say this. Somebody really smart said it. You have to meet people where they are. Maybe J. R. said it. I’m not sure. But anyway, we weren’t meeting people on social media, which a lot of our clients and future clients and potential clients were already on. So, I forget what the question was, but I just thought it was important that we talk about like how that started because we did not have a social presence. And to me, it’s you have to have one at this point.

Katie Frey: 100%. Like you said, that’s where everybody’s at and you’ve got to meet them there. I’m curious if it changed the way that you communicate with clients.

Tom Giordano: Well, I don’t I mean, no, I’m always going to communicate with clients the same way. I what I like about it, and again, I don’t know if I’m answering your question, but I’m going to tell you what I like about social media for Pond Lehocky. It shows that we are serious, but we don’t take ourselves too seriously. Like, to me, that has to be our guiding principle, right? Because you’ve met, you know, obviously you’ve talked to Sam, you’ve talked to Jerry, serious serious guys who seriously care about the work that we do. But we also like to have fun. Yeah. We also like to joke. I mean, if you come to our partners meetings, it’s we’re laughing, we’re serious. We’re laughing. We’re laughing probably more than we’re serious. so I think it’s important for you to see that there’s a human side to us and um I think that probably makes people feel more comfortable using us.

Katie Frey: Absolutely. And something that has been a recurring theme that I’ve seen is that sense of family. And when you’re with family, yes, they’re serious topics, but you can also joke and have fun because you’ve been with these guys for how many years now?

Tom Giordano: wow. it’s obviously the firm is 16 years old, so we’ve been 16 years here. I was a very young lawyer. and I’ve been with Sam and Jerry since I was 25, so maybe we’re talking 21 years now.

Katie Frey: Oh my gosh, it’s a long time. That really is a long time. Do you ever think about that? Just the longevity of being with the same partners for that amount of time.

Tom Giordano: I don’t think about that. What I think about is how my life has been shaped by luck.

Luck, Mentorship, and the Firm’s Beginning

Katie Frey: Yeah, tell me more about that.

Tom Giordano: Sure. So, I, you know, I started out, I was a defense attorney, so like Sam and Jerry, I started out representing the insurance companies, which I wasn’t loving. Yeah. but I would see these guys in court and I’m a I’m a sports fan. I’m a Philly Philadelphia fan through and through. But if you think about like baseball, let’s use for an example, the Yankee pinstripes, they just you see them and like you know they’re the Yankees, right? Well, when I would go to court back in my 20s with a really bad Jersey blowout uh and a suit that didn’t fit. We’ll insert a picture here. We I hope I hope there is no picture there. It was brutal. But I would see these guys wearing these pinstripe suits and confidence control in the courtroom and it was Sam and Jerry and I’m like I got to work there someday. So I had an opportunity to I got an opportunity I took it. But I think the luck part and I’ve said this to other people. I don’t know if I’ve ever said it on video before, but my office was right next to Sam’s. I don’t know if I’m here with you doing this if my office was anywhere else in that building. Maybe next to Jerry probably, but I just that one decision of somebody else, whoever the office manager was at the time, putting me there. Or maybe it was just the only empty office that was that was available changed the trajectory of my entire life.

Katie Frey: That is incredible. And that’s something that I’ve heard from J. R. as well is just being in the right place at the right time and how it can change the whole trajectory of your life.

Tom Giordano: Yeah, totally incredible. Yeah, it did.

Katie Frey: That is so neat. Now, going back to your social media prowess and presence, did you ever imagine that people would recognize you because of Instagram?

Tom Giordano: no. Never in a million years. In fact, I was just lucky enough to take my son to the uh to the Major League Baseball Home Run Derby. Nice. And I’m walking around and to hear people go, “Yo, Palm Le hockey.” Which is funny because nobody knows my name. It’s Tom, by the way. Just let everybody know. But uh that makes like my day. And I feel so grateful that they recognize me. And like one guy had his girlfriend take a picture of us, which I thought was like, “Why do you want to take a picture with me?”

Katie Frey: Oh my gosh.

Tom Giordano: And I don’t know how to react to these moments.

Katie Frey: Yeah. So what I do is I’m like, “How do you know?” Like, “Why do you like, “Oh, you guys give away tickets. I always try to get tickets.” I’m like, “All right, give me your email. I’m going to give you tickets.” I give away more tickets on the street because I don’t know how to properly thank somebody for like following us. I just I get a kick out of it. So, you heard it here first. If you see Tom Giordano in these streets, stop and in fact, if you just say you like Pond Lehocky, I will give you something because I don’t know how to I like Pond Lehocky.

Tom Giordano: There you go. You have to say that I do.

Katie Frey: So, what’s been the biggest payoff of putting yourself out there in that way? I Well, look, it’s clearly generated work, right? So, it’s it’s it’s gotten us to people that maybe wouldn’t have, like you said earlier, that maybe wouldn’t have thought about poly hockey. So, the payoff has been that it works to bring in potential clients, which, you know, that’s why I do it. Like, I’m Yeah. but I think just being recognized and people like enjoying what we’re doing. Yeah. Again, I will go back and I will say this throughout this interview, I always am concerned like why would you want to follow a law firm? And I and I think we’ve done a you know, I don’t want to pat ourselves on the back too much because there’s still a lot of work to get done, but we’ve done a good job of making people want to follow us. Absolutely. Right.

Tom Giordano: Now, we’ve bribed them a little bit with tickets, which is okay. I think that’s okay because I think what we are doing with the tickets in particular, which is look, I’m not going to take credit for anything. I will take credit for that because it was it was we h we’re all sports fans here. We love the Philadelphia teams. And by the way, we’re we’re going to have tickets to all the towns that we’re in, but you know, we don’t always get to go to the games. We’re busy. And sometimes our tickets would go to like to just sit there. So why wouldn’t we give people in this city who love these teams who maybe aren’t don’t have the ability to get to these games, why wouldn’t we give them that opportunity? And it kind of just grew and grew and we’re always going to do it. I love that. Yeah, it’s great. And that’s something that as I’ve worked with you over the past few months is another recurring theme that I’ve seen in your life is thinking about things through the lens of being able to give back. You’ve even asked me like how can we give these tickets beyond just a social giveaway but work with partnering organizations within the Philadelphia area to be able to provide because I think at the core of what Pond Lehocky does that’s something that sets Pond Lehocky apart and makes it special is that there’s a heartbeat in the center of everything that goes on. So can you speak a little bit more about why that’s so important to you? I mean personally and look this is a word that has been overused a lot especially in social media like I really truly believe that Sam Pond Jerry Lehocky and myself are very very grateful individuals because we all came from similar backgrounds where I grew up in South Philadelphia and then South Jersey, Jerry from Pittsburgh obviously Sam from Northeast Philadelphia. We didn’t come from a lot of money. and I just think we feel very very fortunate. I think we worked very hard to get here, but I think we’d feel very fortunate to be here. I know I do every day. So, to be able to give back, to actually have that ability to give back, maybe it’s selfish, it just feels really good. and I and I think it’s super important. And I think it’s also important if you’re going to put your roots in a city or a town or a state that you need to really be all-in and it’s not just take take, let me be I want to be your lawyer. I want to be your lawyer. No, you have to give back. so you know, it’s a it’s a it’s those kind of competing feelings of being grateful for what we have and wanting to share, but also feeling an obligation to give back to the community that’s been so great to us. Absolutely. Yeah. Have you ever had anyone come up to you in public and tell you that they called the firm because they saw one of your videos? no. But what I think even better than that is I’ve had people come up to me because they’ve recognized me from the videos and told me how much our firm has helped them or their friend or their family in the past. So, you know, that is that’s everything just to get a story about you guys were awesome. You helped me out. You helped my mom. You helped my sister. You helped whoever. That is the best because I that was my favorite part about being a lawyer. It’s funny. I’m still a lawyer, everybody. um about trying cases and handling cases as much as I was doing in the past. I’m not doing so much now. It’s more managing the firm. But um that was the best the hug after the hearing was over getting the individual who was disabled or hurt at work benefits like that. I know it’s cliche but it was the best feeling in the world.

Katie Frey: Wow. To get paid to do that is awesome.

Tom Giordano: Truly highly recommended people.

Katie Frey: Wow. Yeah. I’m now considering law school. One thing I’ve always appreciated about working with you is that even if I pitch an idea that makes you roll your eyes at me at first, which happens a lot.

Giving Back to the Community

Tom Giordano: Happened yesterday.

Katie Frey: I think it did.

Tom Giordano: You are correct.

Katie Frey: You’re always willing to trust the process though. If you think it may help even just one more person, you always say that this gets us one more case. If this helps us reach one more person, then I will put on those sunglasses and dance for you. I don’t think people see that side of you though. So, how do you balance making that educational content that we talked about while also being approachable and what I like to call edutaining?

Tom Giordano: Edutaining. well, I think it goes back to what I’ve said already, like I want people to stay with us, right? So, I don’t think it could just be let me sit in a classroom and teach you about workers’ compensation or Social Security Disability or the importance of a contingent fee, which I could do and I’ll be happy to do it. I just don’t think that’s enough nowadays. I think part of my kind of entire being is I don’t think I know everything. In fact, I think sometimes what I like to do is say, “Okay, I don’t know everything about social media. I’m old. I think I’m a little older maybe to know what’s all the cool things that are happening in social media.” So when someone like yourself or our younger interns have an idea, I just have to trust that you have a finger on the pulse of our younger potential clients. So I’ll go with it. Again, my kind of my balancing act here is I want to have fun, but I don’t want to be a clown, right? So that’s a tough struggle. I always fight with that.

Katie Frey: Yeah.

Tom Giordano: You know, and then I have my mother, who I love more than anybody, say, Tommy, you’re a lawyer. You can’t be dancing. Come on, Mom. I’m just trying to reach more people.

Katie Frey: I love it. I love it. Now, I want to talk about one of the biggest moments of your career. We touched on this briefly. Okay. You were still a relatively young attorney when Sam and Jerry approached you about starting a firm together. Yeah. Do you remember that conversation?

Tom Giordano: Oh, I’ll never forget that conversation. so Sam was going Sam just walks into my office one day and I had an I knew it was happening. but I again I didn’t know anything about the firm, the new firm that we were they were talking about or thinking about starting. Sam walks into my office and goes, “Jerry and I are leaving. Do you want to come or we want you to join? I’m going on vacation. I’ll see you in a week.” And let me know what you like. Let me know when I come back. Now, I’m going to tell you a secret. I could have told him right then. I knew I was going to go with Sam. I knew I was going to go with Jerry. you know, no disrespect to the other partners at that firm, but that’s just that was my connection. You know, going back to that luck of having and you’re not asking me this question, but I’m going to tell this story because I want everybody to know it. You know, the thing that Sam did that was changed my life is he as he would walk past my office back in the early 2000s, he would invite me to things. I am going to lunch with the doctor. Would you like to come? And the only thing I have ever done right in my career is say yes. Wow. Yes. I have dinner tonight with a union leader. I am going to speak to a union. Do you want to come? And I just would say yes. Now he never had to ask me. That’s see this is the part that I’ll always have gratitude. And you know he asked me he didn’t have to ask me. He could have done that himself. He didn’t need me. I was 25. I wasn’t really offering anything to anybody at that point. I was company and I was just a sponge and I was listening. So, wow, that happened for five to six years before he asked me to join the this firm. so I would have said yes in a second, but I thought about it of course, but I knew the answer was yes. No brainer.

Katie Frey: That’s incredible. Yeah. Now, there are people probably listening to this who are in their 20s or their 30s wondering how they can prepare for a crazy life-changing opportunity like that to come. Looking back, what do you think you did earlier in your career that made Sam and Jerry believe in you?

Tom Giordano: so I’m always my hardest critic and I use I still do it to this day. I will never let my ego get out of check and I will always have a sense of impostor syndrome which kind of drives me. It’s kind of my fuel, right? I think what I did best early on and I think it’s important for any young anybody lawyer, doctor, doesn’t matter what you’re doing if you’re young. I just was available like you know have you heard that saying the best ability could sometimes is availability. I truly think that still the case right now. like I’m available. I’m willing to say yes. I’m willing to do the things that maybe Look, I was in my early 20s. I think when you’re young and you start making a little money, the it’s natural that you want to go out, you want to maybe have a nice dinner, you want to maybe meet people, go out with your friends. And I think I sacrificed a lot of that because I was out to dinner with my part my future partners, meeting other professionals, understanding how this business works, and I was available. I said yes. And I think that’s the best thing I did. I said yes. And I try to keep that mentality today to this day. if there’s a union meeting that somebody needs to go to, I’ll go. that’s how I bring I feel like I bring value is by being here, being available, you know, doing the things that, you know, are not always the easiest thing to do, but you have to do them.

Katie Frey: Yeah. Something you mentioned that I think will resonate with a lot of people is impostor syndrome. And it’s something I know I’ve felt in my life. I know my friends and my family have felt that. And it’s kind of amazing to me to hear Tom Giordano, this extremely successful lawyer and now partner and this person who runs an incredibly successful business also has that. Can you tell me a little bit more about that feeling and how you use it to drive you instead of deter you from greatness? So I love to be a sponge and when I hear great things I tr I try to live them and adopt them. So, I did not come up with this, but I think there was I think it might have been Jimmy Iavine who was this famous producer, one of the co-creators of Beats. He did this um podcast or he did this show on HBO once and he said he uses he almost uses that as a tailwind, right? To push him. So, like so I use I use impostor syndrome to number one keep me grounded because I do think one of the biggest problems a lot of people have is ego. Yeah. I think it ruins businesses. I think it ruins marriages. I think it ruins partnerships. So, I always want to keep my ego in check. and I also always want to I need to be motivated to feel a certain way. My motivation, and I know, which is funny because Sam Pondd is probably the he’s all about positivity, being positive. You believe it, it’s going to come. And I believe that. I actually believe that in my heart, but sometimes for me to motivate myself, I need to feel like I’m a little less than so I can push myself to be more than. And I, you know, that’s that’s how I use imposter. But I also think what’s cool about getting old and there’s not many things about getting old that are cool, but you start to like know yourself a little bit more and you cut the BS. So like I can pretend to you that I have no insecurities and I don’t feel imposter, but I do and it motivates me and I’m okay to share it because I think it just it’s real. That’s that honesty is I truly believe what makes you connect to our audience. You are so real. You’re so humble, but you also use these things that other people can see as a deterrent or an insecurity to propel you. And I think that’s like one of your superpowers.

Tom Giordano: Oh, thanks.

Saying Yes and Managing Impostor Syndrome

Katie Frey: So, what did it mean to you to have your name on the door here at what 25 years old? 30. 30. Oh my gosh. I it so it meant everything. But look, I let’s let’s also talk about the elephant in the room, right? And this is this is good for ego. So, I’m a named partner of this firm and it’s Pond Lehocky, but like that but I this I feel like Pond Lehocky I it’s it’s my firm too, right? Like like I think it’s a humbling to have your name on the door at 30. Like it meant the world to me and I still have my name on the door. And it’s also humbling when Palaki is the biggest brand in the world and I’m a part of that. So I look it that again Sam and Jerry did not have to give me that opportunity 16 years ago and they did. They believed in me and like I look at my life as I’m in repayment mode every day because of that. It’s it’s look I am I am so lucky and fortunate to be here. there’s no way I could have done it on my own. And I and I think that goes back to the ego game, right? Like I think there’s a lot of people who come into and I’ll just use law firms as an example. We get success and your ego like ah this is because of me. It’s not it’s because of all of us because of Paul Lei hockey myself but it’s also because of our managers our staff like this to get to this level of success there’s never one or two or three or even 10 people. It’s it’s everybody. You just can’t forget that. Takes a village. It takes a village but a lot of people forget it. I try never to. So, one of the things that Sam and Jerry entrusted you with was building the social security department. At the time, from my understanding, it was just you, maybe like a few other people, Kajal, but it really was just you to start. Today, it’s helped tens of thousands of people across all 50 states. When you look back, could you have ever imagined?

Tom Giordano: No. I mean, you have to understand when I first started handling these cases, I had at most a few hundred and we started the firm in 2010, I think I might have had 500 clients, which is fantastic. I’ll take 500 clients any day of the week. By 2013, 2014, we had 25,000 active files, active clients throughout the throughout the country in all 50 states. I mean, it was wow. No. So the answer to your question is I had no imagination that it could get that big, but the fact that we’ve helped I think the number is now closer to 75,000 Americans who have received disability benefits, it is a you know joy of my life that it’s I’m so proud of it and we built it and I think the success of the Social Security disability department has spurred the growth of the firm in all aspects. So, in a in a in a way, me and I think the CEO, Sean Lehocky, who was my intern back in 2011. Are you serious? Oh my god. He was my intern. He was great.

Katie Frey: I did not know that. Oh yeah, it was f it’s to see that’s awesome. We I know we’re not supposed to talk about all this stuff, but watching the growth of individuals who started out either as interns or much lower positions who are now running the firm, like I don’t I don’t sit back enough and just like think about how incredible that is, but it’s incredible. So yeah, Sean Lehocky, who’s who’s Jerry’s nephew, Jerry said, “My nephew just graduated college. He needs a job. You know, give him something.” And I’m like, “Ah, here we go. Fine. I’ll give him a job.” and he did the job in like 10 seconds that I thought was going to take him the entire summer. Like, all right, this kid’s got something.

Tom Giordano: Wow. And, you know, he just kept growing with me. And I really credit, look, there’s a lot of people behind the scenes to get Pond Lehockyy’s disability department that big. But it was Sean and his young energetic mind that really allowed us to grow, too. So, it’s just it’s been incredible.

Katie Frey: That’s amazing. And for those listening, the marketing team sits on the same floor as Social Security disability. And even in my past five months, I keep seeing desks being filled up because that department just keeps growing exponentially. It’s amazing exponentially because think about it. It’s we there are so many people out there that don’t even know about this program. So again, we’re educating. We’re trying to grow it. But I suspect that this entire floor will be taken up by Social Security disability members soon enough. You better make room for me on the on your floor. And we’ll definitely talk more about Social Security Disability. But one question that we get all the time on social media is about doctors after a work injury. Okay. A lot of people, even today, I got a comment. A lot of people think they have to keep treating with the doctor their employer or their insurance company tells them that they have to see. Can you explain how that actually works?

Tom Giordano: Okay, this is where you probably should have asked that question to Sam or Jerry because they’d be banging on the table right now telling you that is the biggest lie in the history of workers’ compensation in Pennsylvania. The number one thing that we do that I believe is the is a true differentiator of Pond Lehocky when it comes to workers’ comp is we send you to the right doctor immediately. You do not have to treat with a panel physician. It’s a it’s we call it the 90-day myth. It’s a big myth out there in Pennsylvania that you are locked into your panel doc, the employer’s panel doctor, which by the way has really I should be careful of my words, but they really don’t have an interest in helping you get better. Their primary focus may be in getting you back to work and minimizing the exposure for the employer. We flip that on its head. You come to Pond Lehocky, you are getting a referral to a qualified board-certified physician immediately within whether it’s hours or a day or two days. You’re getting top-notch doctor uh treatment and you’re getting back to work as soon as you possibly can. The 90-day myth, my head could explode because it is not true and so many people believe it and they just follow it.

Katie Frey: Wow. It’s nuts. Is there a situation where someone can use their own doctor?

Tom Giordano: Yeah, absolutely. I mean that you can use your own doctor or we can send you to a doctor that we know specializes in in the in the issue that you’re dealing with specifically. But yes, you can use your own doctor. You are not stuck to a panel doctor who does not have your best interest in mind.

Katie Frey: Now, I want to get back into talking about Social Security disability. Okay. What’s one thing you wish every person scrolling our page knew about Social Security disability?

Tom Giordano: That’s a great question. I just want them to know that it’s an option, right? I think that’s the that’s the biggest barrier that we try to overcome when we speak to anybody, but we speak to a lot of unions throughout the country. They just don’t understand that it’s an if if you ask nine out of 10 people on the street, I think they would know that there’s a retirement plan that when you turn 62 or 70, you will get Social Security retirement. But I don’t think enough people in this country understand that you 6.2% of every one of our paychecks has been going and they call it FICA tax. So you may or may not know what that is, but if you look on your paycheck, you’ll see FICA taxes. Where’s that money going? That money is going to the federal government to the Social Security Administration in a fund in your name for when you retire, but also if you can’t work due to any medical condition. So, I just want people to understand that if they are working right now and they are suffering from any type of medical condition and it doesn’t just have to be a work injury. I know we’re a work injury firm, right? So, sometimes we but like how many people, God forbid, have cancer.

Katie Frey: Yeah. And cancer now makes their life impossible to work because they have to get treatment. They feel horrible. you have disability. You’ve paid into it. You’ve paid into it. So, I just encourage everybody to understand the rights that it’s there for you. If a medical condition, regardless of what that medical condition is, keeps you from working. Yeah. And like you said, people hear Social Security and they think, “I can get that when I’m 62.” Yeah. When I’m older. Can someone who’s 24 qualify for this? I mean, we help, you know, we help children who were just born, right? They were born with a disability. They can get SSI. yeah. It’s from birth to full retirement age. I mean, we can So, we have a we can help individuals in this country essentially from their birth to their retirement. If someone listening hasn’t heard the term Social Security Disability, SSD, SSDI, can you give us a quick explainer? What does that mean?

Tom Giordano: Okay. there’s nothing quick about this, but I will do my best. There I think that they interchange SSDI and SSI all all the time. So the general concept is if you are unable to work due to medical conditions or if you’re if you’re unable to function or unable to go to school because it’s not just for you know it’s not just for adults any medical condition you can qualify for either one of the two programs which is SSDI which is Social Security Disability insurance which is you’ve paid into it. We talked about that earlier. 6.2% of your paycheck has gone in. You’re paying into this if you’re under 18. If you’ve never had a job, if you’re at the, you know, a poverty level and you just don’t have a lot of money, you’re eligible for SSI. So, there are two separate programs under the Social Security umbrella. And SSI can get you benefits, can get you health insurance if you’ve never worked and you’re disabled. you prove disability the same way. So, both programs, you know, are we handle both cases. just one is for people who have paid into the system and one is people who have not. That’s the easiest way. It’s much more complicated than that, but I think that’s a good distinction. I think a lot of people interchange those terms and they shouldn’t, but that’s okay. I think it’s really a really helpful explainer. Quick lesson for everybody who’s never heard of it before.

Katie Frey: So, why did you choose to focus on Social Security disability?

Tom Giordano: I feel like this whole interview I’m telling you about Sam stories. so I’ll tell you why. I was a 26-year-old workers’ comp attorney working under Sam and Jerry at our old firm. Sam, we were at a dinner with Sam and Jerry and a bunch of other attorneys. Sam might have had too much to drink. I don’t want to, you know, I don’t want to say that. I too late. I already did. And Sam, as you know, is just a very dynamic speaker. And he I don’t know if he got sometimes you tell these stories and they’ve kind of evolved. He might have gotten on a table. He might have had a sword in his hand. He might have had a steak knife in his hand. He just looked like a captain of a ship. And he said and he was being serious that Social Security Disability is the future. Meaning he saw the landscape and he saw that many of our baby boomers were turning in their 50s and in their 60s and they were working a long time and their bodies were starting to break down. He saw that this was an opportunity for our law firm at the time.

Katie Frey: Yeah. To really expand our disability practice. We had a very small one. I wasn’t handling it. I was doing workers’ comp. Again, here’s Tom Giordano, 26-year-old, looking at his mentor saying that this is something that’s important to help people that could be really big. Who wants to do it? So, I volunteered to do it. I had no Social Security Disability knowledge. I was a workers’ comp attorney. I was hoping to be the next Sam or Jerry. but that was a amazing decision that I made because when Sam and Jerry were talking about leaving, we of course if you’re starting a workers’ comp firm, you need a disability attorney. I was a disability attorney. It made sense for me to come along, right? Just one decision after another that it just kind of changed my life. But I somebody who I respected and admired said this was important. Yeah. It’s going to help people. Where do I sign up? That’s incredible. Yeah. I just started like the next week. If Sam Pond stood on a table with a sword and said or knife or a knife. I think it was a sword. If he stood on a table with a sword and said, “This is where we’re going.” I’d be like, “Okay, cool.

Building the Social Security Disability Practice

Tom Giordano: Look, I am not afraid to admit I like to be inspired.”

Katie Frey: Yeah. You know, I need inspiration. Totally. And the guy inspires me. So, he inspired me then, he inspires me now. kicked my butt on the tennis court, you know, so it’s all good. He’s amazingly fit. Yeah, he tried to actually

Tom Giordano: You say amazingly, I say frustratingly. because I feel like I work really hard and I’m sure he does too, but I just He’s, you know, I think he almost wills it. He wills that fitness. No, he’s he’s got the fight in him. He’s look and I can say the same thing about Jerry. He doesn’t take a shortcut. He does not take a shortcut. And that’s with the law, that’s with his family, and that’s with fitness. He, you know, he’s carrying heavy items. He’s walking instead of taking something else. There’s an escalator. He’s taking the stairs. That’s just that’s him. It’s always been him. He look he is I’ve had the privilege of knowing Jerry’s known him 40 years. I’ve known him for 20 something years. He is authentic. Like he preaches he practices what he preaches.

Katie Frey: Yeah. Because I look I’m on Instagram. I’m getting I’m seeing all these people who are experts and they’re telling me to do this and be grateful and to get sunlight and I’m following all of it. But like he’s been doing it for his whole career. So he lives it. Yeah. Yeah. What keeps you passionate about this work all these years later? I mean I I said it earlier, I’ll say it again. You got I would tell everybody out there to find a job that gives you the satisfaction that this job gives me, right? And it gives my partners. You know, we are helping people every day. And to be able to earn a living, a good living helping people every day like that check. I’m all in. It’s the what? The hug. The hug.

Tom Giordano: The hug after the case. It’s the hug after the case. Exactly right. Yep.

Katie Frey: What’s the biggest myth that you hear about Social Security Disability? that it’s a handout, that’s an entitlement. that it’s, you know, and that frustrates all of us, but it’s not. I mean, you’ve actually, the government has taken money out of your paycheck. By the way, they didn’t ask, did they ask you to take 62? No, they did not. They just took 6.2% and they put it into a Social Security fund. And I think I get frustrated when people think like, well, I don’t want a handout. I, you know, I, oh, that’s not a handout. It’s your money. It’s your money. and I think that’s a older school way of thinking, but I get it. I understand it. so that’s it. I think that’s the number one thing that’s a big misconception. and I also, you know, I get frustrated when people judge somebody’s disability based upon outward appearance, right? I mean, one of the things that we’ve been we’ve helped, you know, as I said, 75,000 people maybe get disability throughout the country. A lot of that is mental health. A lot of that they the person, you know, looks as fine as in the outside as anybody and but inside there there’s a real struggle there. So, you know, I don’t like that. That person’s not disabled. Why? Because they’re not in a wheelchair. That’s not necessarily a fair assessment of anybody’s disability. Something that I’ve heard a lot over time is that initial claims get denied. Can you tell me why that is?

Tom Giordano: Okay. I don’t know this for a fact. I have some I have some thoughts. My the cynic in me and I’m not a very cynical person, but the cynic in me thinks that the Social Security Administration is denying people so that they don’t keep going. Again, I don’t know that to be true, but wow. The statistics show me that 70% of people get denied on the first the first try. So seven pe So 10 people apply, seven people are getting rejected. Are you kidding? Now of those seven people get rejected, about half of them will never will just quit. Wow. So there’s a little bit of cynicism there where I think maybe the government’s trying to just dissuade people from wanting to go forward. Well, sure. When you look at the numbers, I think part of that seven out of 10 is maybe they’re trying to do it on their own, but you but you can. And again, I don’t want to this is going to sound self-serving, but you know, that’s not a process to necessarily do on your own, especially if you’re disabled and sick and in pain and it’s a lot of forms that you don’t necessarily need to fill out. So, there’s there’s a there’s probably a few more reasons. Maybe some people are not understanding the system and maybe they’re they have a less severe injury that they think can get disability for. Look, the program was designed for people who are either out of work and they won’t be back to work for 12 months or they’re just never going to get back to work.

Katie Frey: Yeah. So, they they they they certainly don’t want you to apply if you broke your ankle. I’m not suggesting that a broken ankle isn’t a severely painful thing to deal with, but it might not necessarily make you disabled from the work that you were doing. So, I think part of it is maybe they don’t understand what they’re applying for, but I think I’m going to stick to my original answer. And I just think sometimes the government’s trying to dissuade you from app from going forward, especially if they can go from 100% down to 30%. Can I give a can I give a unsolicited PSA?

Tom Giordano: Absolutely. I And again, I don’t care if they use I want them to use Pond Lehocky, of course. But if you get denied on your initial application from Social Security, appeal it. Appeal it. Appeal it. Appeal it. Do not start over. Do not throw your hands up. You have to appeal that decision. Cannot accept it. How do you know how long you have to appeal? You have 60 days. You have 60 days to appeal. Okay.

Katie Frey: And in my mind, I would think I’ve got to go start back at square one. I’ve got to reapply.

Tom Giordano: So many people do.

Workers’ Compensation and Medical Treatment

Katie Frey: Wow. And then they lose potentially lose money.

Tom Giordano: They lose time because it’s it’s a process. It’s a process. So, wow. Appeal. Appeal. Appeal.

Katie Frey: We’ll be back with more Law Meets Life after a quick message from our sponsor. Do my eyes play games? What do you see, Captain? Is it the red coats? No, it’s another Pond Lehocky billboard. Who here has been injured at work? We have, sir. It’s our fingers, sir. Oh, they ache. Well, then you know who to call. To the front. March. These things are everywhere. We’re back with Tom Giordano, founding partner of Pond Lehocky. So, Tom, something that’s very timely. It literally just came across my desk today. Okay. There was a client who received some sort of AI generated text message which we’re assuming the opposition sent to their phone to try to get information from this person. What are your thoughts on the use of AI and technology from the other side of the aisle? Because we use it for good, correct? We use AI. We leverage technology to better reach our customers, better reach our clients, better represent them. What’s your initial reaction hearing that it’s used in such an evil way? Well, my my initial reaction is they shouldn’t be reaching out to our client at all. Right. That’s why you hire us so that we you communicate with us so that if we get something like that which is completely ridiculous, we can identify that versus my client who’s innocent might be in pain, might not be concentrating and understanding that’s what that is. I mean to answer your question, I think you hit the nail on the head with your question. When you use it for good, I have no issues with it, right? Which is what we do. AI is extremely beneficial. It helps us in a lot of different ways. But when it’s used to deceive or defraud an innocent client who again is dealing with a hundred other things, I have a real big problem with that. I also have a real big problem with you reaching out to my client without talking to me first. Now, I want to talk more about your leadership. Okay. You’ve helped grow this firm tremendously as we’ve talked about today. What do you believe has changed the most in the past 16 years?

Tom Giordano: What? I was not prepared for that question. what’s changed the most? I mean, look, I actually don’t think a lot has changed in terms of our overall leadership structure and how we view things. I mean, the world has changed in the last 16 years. You talked about AI. I mean, that has been completely a thousand miles an hour and we’re just doing our best to try to figure out how we can use AI to enhance the things that we do. The one thing about poly hockey is we’re people first. We don’t want AI to replace people. We want AI to make people better, right? We want AI to be there for to make your job easier and to make you do things that are important to our clients ultimate success. Waiting on hold for medical records, waiting on hold with an insurance company, those are not waiting on hold with social security. Those are not things that I want any high paid, highly intelligent person to be doing. it’s just a complete waste of time. We could be spending that time better. So, you know, that’s one thing. But look, we haven’t really changed. And I think that’s what makes this place special. we are we I think our very I think we knew that we’d be successful. And I guess that goes to Sam and Jerry’s kind of just believing. We believe. I think the key is just not forgetting where you came from, not forgetting the reason why we’re here, not losing sight of the things that matter the most to us. And yeah, it’s all kind of worked out well. Let’s talk more about where you came from. Okay. Is this true that you were born in a row home in South Philly? I live Yeah, I’ve lived I was born in South Philadelphia, lived there for 10 years. loved loved every second of it. When my parents, you know, I had no choice in the matter. I would have stayed there forever. They said, “We’re moving to South Jersey.” I said, “Okay.” I didn’t want to. My grandparents still lived in Philly. I came back every weekend because I wanted to be in Philly. but I look, I think moving to the suburbs and I moved to a place, Cherry Hill, New Jersey, that had a lot of professionals. And I think living in the city for the first 10 years of my life shaped me in a way that made me more independent um little street smart and then moving to South Jersey into a community like Cherry Hill made me realize that okay being a professional is something that maybe I want to do. Being surrounded by people who have been successful is not not that I wasn’t surrounded by people with success in Philadelphia. It’s just different.

Understanding Social Security Disability

Katie Frey: Yeah. so yeah I grew up in the city and the suburbs. I enjoyed both of my time and I think it shaped the person I am today. Yeah. So, switching to your fabulous family. Okay. You’re a husband and a father of four beautiful children. Thank you. How’s becoming a dad changed you? Um

Tom Giordano: Oh, man. I All right. This is going to sound really cheesy, but I don’t think I understood what true love was until I had children. like that. Like that has been the biggest change for me. Now, let me tell you something. My house is insane. My children, God bless them. I love them. They’re great, but they’re nuts sometimes, and it’s really stressful. But to be a father, I think, is the greatest thing that’s ever happened to me.

Katie Frey: What’s their age range? I have a He just turned

Tom Giordano: I have a teenager now. I can’t believe I have a teenager now.

Katie Frey: Are you serious? I mean, we’re working with some teenagers here. That’s how that’s how old I feel.

Tom Giordano: Wow. I have a teenager, 13. I have a 10-year-old, and I have twin eight-year-olds.

Katie Frey: Oh my gosh.

Tom Giordano: And then I have two dogs. So, it’s just it’s just a chaos. My my wife, God bless her. I mean, she’s a saint. Like, she deals with that because I’m here. I’m working.

Katie Frey: Yeah. We’re shout out. Yeah. Shout out Stephanie. She’s awesome. But it’s uh it’s it’s Look, it’s it’s fantastic. I have a sister, right? So, I come from a smaller family. um to have four kids. it’s it’s it’s incredible and insane. I was going to say both those words. It’s incredible and insane. Were you the older brother or the younger brother? I was

Tom Giordano: I was an accident. My parents finally admitted that at one point. My sister’s eight years older than me. So

Katie Frey: Oh, really? Yeah.

Tom Giordano: Wow.

Katie Frey: Yeah. What do your kids think that you do all day?

Tom Giordano: Film TikToks and Instagram. and they think it’s great. uh they think my job is fil I mean that’s and that’s fine that’s okay I tell them I help people but I don’t necessarily know if they understand the breadth of it um but look they’re they’re they’re they’re proud of me they’re proud of this firm they call Sam and Jerry Uncle Sam Uncle Jerry you know it’s it really again I don’t I want to avoid the cliches here but we are a family and that is something that I really is treasure.

Katie Frey: You showed me the cutest picture the other day and it was your daughter and her best friend dressing up like they were Sam and you in a commercial. Y So, can you tell me a little bit more about what that looks like when you get home? Because our show is law meets life. And for everyone we’ve talked to so far that works at this firm, it’s the same answer. Law is life. There’s no I come home, it’s it’s different. like their families are a part of this, too. And they’re as excited as we are about these successes. What does it mean to you to see your daughter just pretending to be you when you come home? It’s it’s really it’s really cute and it’s uh it makes me laugh and smile and you know she’ll do a commercial. She’ll be like injured at work call hockey and she’s very expressive. You know her so she’s got an amazing expressive face. It’s it’s it’s great. It’s fantastic. but look, you’re I think you’re alluding to law meets life. And I will tell you that the law really gave me a great life. Yeah. And I just don’t I can’t forget that. I’ll never forget it. That’s fantastic. Yeah. Now, I know your kids watch your videos. Do they think that you’re cool?

Tom Giordano: Well, I don’t think I’m cool. So, and I swear to God I But

Myths, Denials, and Appeals

Katie Frey: I don’t know how you think that, Tom.

Tom Giordano: Yeah. I don’t know. But uh do they think I’m cool? I It’s a great I bet you my younger I think my 13-year-old doesn’t think I’m that cool. Although I try to tell him I’m cool. Like come on, man. Let’s like I’m cool. I don’t know. It’s a great question. I think again we are in such a social media world right now and I and I know you’re our social media director. I try to keep my children off of social media. They don’t have Instagram accounts. They sneak YouTube, which we talked about the ASMR videos, but so they don’t see everything we do. I like to show them some of the more fun stuff, but I mean it’s it’s it’s great. I love getting them involved. So, bring them back. We’ll have Oh, my daughter my daughter is definitely all in. I love it.

Katie Frey: She was fantastic. She definitely has a future in uh in acting.

Tom Giordano: She’ll tell you that, too.

Katie Frey: So, Tom, I would love to do some rapid fire questions with you. Are you ready? I’m born ready. Favorite Philly sports venue? Can I use old ones? Yeah, you can use old ones.

Tom Giordano: The Spectrum.

Katie Frey: Really?

Tom Giordano: Love the Spectrum because I was a very big hockey fan back in the day.

Katie Frey: Yeah. People would say Vet Stadium, which I loved as well, but the Spectrum was it’s near and dear to my heart. Easy one. Wawa or Sheetz? I don’t even Sheetz. I actually, you know, I reluctantly took my kids to a Sheetz once because they were curious about it and I’m like, what’s all the fuss about? Wawa is better. What did they think?

Tom Giordano: They thought it was okay.

Katie Frey: Favorite neighborhood in Philly?

Tom Giordano: It’s South Philadelphia. I mean, it’s where I grew up. loved it. I still love it. Go-to order at a Phillies game. All right. I just was there, so I had a sausage and pepper sandwich. Fantastic. And an ice cream sundae. We I can we do a podcast on ice cream one day because I can spend four hours on that.

Katie Frey: You heard it here first. It’s a passion. We’re doing an ice cream podcast.

Tom Giordano: Yeah. I actually have a place I need to take you. Okay. It just opened up like this week and it’s fantastic. Okay, I’m all in. All right, we’re going. Favorite movie. Oh, it’s so tough. I think the movie that probably has resonated the most with me throughout my life is The Godfather. My father had me watching it at a very young age and as I gotten older and I realize all the life lessons that it teaches you, I think it’s just maybe the most perfect film ever made. Favorite singer. All right. So, my hero growing up is going to sound very odd, is Frank was Frank Sinatra.

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Katie Frey: I think that’s fantastic. So he just to me I can that’s another podcast we could do on Frank Sinatra. But yeah, so Frank Sinatra would be my favorite singer, but I like bands and I like younger people too, not just not just old Italian lounge singers. No, I was about to say some of my favorite singers are Tony Bennett.

Tom Giordano: I met him.

Technology, Leadership, and Growth

Katie Frey: Shut the front door. You did not meet Tony Bennett. I met Tony Bennett was one of the highlights of my life. Are you kidding me?

Tom Giordano: I do have a photo.

Katie Frey: I love Tony Bennett.

Tom Giordano: Yeah. One of my favorite albums of all time is Tony Bennett and Lady Gaga. And I actually travel to Vegas to see Lady Gaga sing jazz because to me like jazz is the epitome of music. If you can be a pop singer, but I can also hear you singing a good old jazz classic. Like that to me is like you’re a good singer.

Katie Frey: Oh my gosh. Okay, I have to see this picture of you and Tony Bennett. Like biggest regret of my life is not seeing him perform live before he passed.

Family and Life Outside the Firm

Tom Giordano: So I saw him twice.

Katie Frey: My gosh. and he was in his probably 70s when I saw him and he was amazing and sharp when it came to his singing even down to the last day like that is what carried him through and I think that’s beautiful and what a lot of people don’t know and I haven’t done this yet but it’s on my bucket list is he was a painter yes and I need to get a Tony Bennett original at some point in my life and put it right in my office I’m going to get it just matter of when that would be amazing too many kids right now morning person or night morning. Always 5:00 a.m. Yeah. Since I started like working, I’ve been up at 5:02—two is my favorite number is my favorite number. So, my alarm is set. I’m not I fall asleep very early. Are you a routine person somewhat? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like 502 and then I do and coffee. A lot of coffee. a ton of coffee throughout the day. It’s the only way I survive. Coffee order.

Tom Giordano: Double espresso. Okay.

Katie Frey: One word your kids would use to describe you. I hope. Loving. Yeah, hope. I think so. I like that one. One word your co-workers would use to describe you.

Tom Giordano: Wow. I don’t know. I That’s It’s a great um thoughtful. Yeah, I agree with that. All right. Thanks.

Katie Frey: Now, let me pull up my phone really quickly, okay? Because before we wrap up, I just wanted to share with you a few comments that people have left on our videos, okay? Oh god, I don’t, by the way, I don’t read them. Good. Cuz I did once and somebody said something really mean and I like felt like horrible for an entire weekend. I’m like, I’m never doing this again. It’s the first rule in putting your face on screen. You can’t read the comments.

Tom Giordano: I didn’t know that. Okay. I might have been drinking too that night. But ever since I started working here, every time I see a comment about you, I screenshot it and I put it in a little folder. Oh wow. So I wanted to read some of them to you now. First one, three fire emojis and my lawyer. I like that. Well said, Tom. Okay.

Katie Frey: Someone called you a saint.

Tom Giordano: Oh, wow.

Katie Frey: Someone said, “Okay, it has been years, but I fell 20 feet at work and workers’ comp really did take care of me because the hospital bills and the settlement. I couldn’t do it. I highly recommend seeking Pond Lehocky.”

Tom Giordano: Wow. See, that is why we do this. That makes Thank you. There’s a video of you where you’re explaining Social Security disability benefits and someone said, “I wish I would have known that.”

Katie Frey: Yeah. Someone said, “Call this man.” right away. Believe him. Your employer does not care at all about you. You are just a number on the job.

Tom Giordano: Wow. Okay.

Katie Frey: And another person said, “Young Nicholas Cage saving lives.

Tom Giordano: I used to work at an Italian restaurant all through high school.” And the older ladies would always say, “I look like Nicholas Cage.” And by the way, I never took that as a compliment, even though I love him. But I’ll take it.

Katie Frey: I can see it. I can see I think it’s a compliment. I can see it. I can see it. Hey, what’s it? National Treasure. Yeah. Yeah. He’s a fantastic and he’s Italian so it’s fine. But when you hear comments like that, what does it mean to know that something as simple as a 30-second video can genuinely help someone? Yeah. I mean that’s why this media medium is amazing and that’s why we’re going to keep doing it. Yeah. Yeah. That’s why we do it. It’s fantastic. Tom, the name of this podcast is The Law Meets Life. When you hear that phrase, what does it mean to you?

Tom Giordano: I mean it means a lot of things to me but I think something I may have said earlier is the law has really given me a great life and look that can go as far back as I met my wife in a law firm when I was working with Sam and Jerry at the previous firm really. So my family has come through this. It’s just what it what it’s meant to me to be a lawyer. um first person in my family to go to college, to be a lawyer, like just it’s just it’s been an honor. It’s a great profession. I know sometimes it gets a bad rap. but to be able to help people, as we talked about earlier, and to make a living off it, it’s it’s my life.

Katie Frey: Tom, thank you so much for being here today.

Tom Giordano: Thank you, Katie. Great job.

Rapid-Fire Questions

Katie Frey: I appreciate the time with you outside of our usual TikTok filming to get to sit down and get to know you a bit more.

Tom Giordano: Yeah. And I think I should apologize because I’m not always very nice when you come with the ideas, but I’m all in. I’m all in.

Katie Frey: Katie helps us get cases.

Tom Giordano: Yeah, she sure does.

Katie Frey: And thank you all so much for listening to another episode of Law Meets Life. Until next time.